tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post1833676085100707285..comments2023-09-11T06:03:29.893-07:00Comments on Time 4 Dogs: A Little Knowledge Can Be DangerousLiberty Bellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comBlogger11125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-86522346963323289272010-05-21T18:02:13.335-07:002010-05-21T18:02:13.335-07:00This is from itchmoforums.com:
Pure Encapsulation...This is from itchmoforums.com:<br /><br />Pure Encapsulations http://www.purecaps.com/faqs.asp makes their own supplements and gets their raw materials from Japan, Switzerland, Germany, Italy, France, and the U.S. They have Taurine. You can buy it here: http://www.oakwayhealthcenter.com/store/alphat.html<br /><br />It does exist, it's just hard to come by and generally involves mail order. :O)The Dog Househttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11287112678836853233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-82884921651862024012010-05-21T17:57:35.957-07:002010-05-21T17:57:35.957-07:00"Assuming that the rabbit meat contained enou..."Assuming that the rabbit meat contained enough taurine..."<br /><br />That is the basic difficulty involved here, we can't assume anything. It probably did, but did anyone analyze it to know for sure? And what may be an issue for someone with malabsorption problems may be inconsequential for an individual with normal digestive function. That's why I'd like to see further studies done so we can have a better idea of the scope of the problem.<br /><br />"This study concerns me, and will certainly cause me to recommend a taurine supplement to anyone feeding an animal with any history of absorbtion issues."<br /><br />That is wise advice for any animal with malabsorption. Probably not just for taurine for but other nutrients as well! Particularly fats and fatty acids as those seem especially difficult for individuals with malabsorption issues to digest and absorb.<br /><br />I've had many cats in my lifetime....just had one pass away in January at the ripe old age of 23...and have not had one with any sort of malabsorption issue. Thank goodness for that!<br /><br />Do you know of a source for taurine that is manufactured in the US? Thanks in advance for any info there!!Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-56157865708176212572010-05-21T17:45:02.734-07:002010-05-21T17:45:02.734-07:00I don't know if I can toss it aside that easil...I don't know if I can toss it aside that easily. Assuming that the rabbit meat contained enough taurine, this still has repercussions for animals with intestinal issues.<br /><br />I can speak from experience that many, many cats suffer from undiagnosed bowel and intestinal issues that are frequently dismissed as "just the way cats are."<br /><br />This study concerns me, and will certainly cause me to recommend a taurine supplement to anyone feeding an animal with any history of absorbtion issues.The Dog Househttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11287112678836853233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-89421463649298204522010-05-21T17:40:03.732-07:002010-05-21T17:40:03.732-07:00The study you cite was a study done on cats with i...The study you cite was a study done on cats with irritable bowel. As such, it can't be viewed as valid information on healthy cats or cats in general. For all we know the cats studied could have had an underlying protein malabsorption issue (most likely) or perhaps (unlikely but possible) a genetic predisposition to cardiomyopathy. Were these cats related? We don't know. <br /><br />Analysis of the rabbit meat should have been conducted to determine if the taurine levels were actually low. I doubt that was done because this was not a study about taurine in rabbit meat, it was a study to see if irritable bowel could be improved with a raw diet. So an assumption was made regarding taurine deficiency that may have been incorrect.<br /><br />To give us any valid information, a study should be conducted on large groups of healthy cats, utilizing different types of raw meats, with prior analysis of the taurine content of the feed. A control group of healthy cats should be included who are fed a cooked or commercial diet that includes a predetermined level of taurine. <br /><br />Not saying there may not be an issue there, but there is not enough data from the study in question to draw any conclusion about taurine deficiency in raw rabbit.Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-86211560928068666522010-05-20T11:21:23.163-07:002010-05-20T11:21:23.163-07:00Not a problem. Frankly, I was blown away when I r...Not a problem. Frankly, I was blown away when I read the study. <br /><br />I can't seem to get any information regarding the exact supplier, the storage or preparation of the rabbit. For example, was it ground and then frozen? How was it thawed?<br /><br />Also, they used WHOLE ground rabbits... perhaps this contributed.<br /><br />I have serious questions about this study, but since I can't come up with enough to simply dismiss it as inaccurate or improperly conducted, there's no other choice than to take it into consideration, I suppose.The Dog Househttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11287112678836853233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-10258640968444811362010-05-19T20:54:28.970-07:002010-05-19T20:54:28.970-07:00Thanks, "The Dog House"....I did a bit o...Thanks, "The Dog House"....I did a bit of digging and found the study you referenced. Cats were fed a diet of raw rabbit to see if it would help with their IBD (irritable bowel syndrome) . Although the IBD cleared up, some cats exhibited symptoms of heart failure.<br /><br />Even though the cats had been fed meat, the rabbit meat had been frozen which they theorize may have caused the taurine content to deteriorate. Interesting! I had heard about taurine deterioration with cooking and pressure but not freezing. <br /><br />Raw feeders rely on frozen foods many times so this is an important factor to consider. <br /><br />A study done on healthy cats without diseased bowels should be undertaken as well!! Could be an underlying malabsorption problem.<br /><br />Here is a link to the study:<br /><br />http://www.cfa.org/articles/health/role-of-diet.htmlLiberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-40989382874201694452010-05-19T20:42:21.054-07:002010-05-19T20:42:21.054-07:00Could I have the link to the data please?Could I have the link to the data please?Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-6471890948100423282010-05-19T19:12:06.593-07:002010-05-19T19:12:06.593-07:00There was a recent study done on feeding raw whole...There was a recent study done on feeding raw whole rabbit to cats. Several of the cats developed taurine deficiencies. <br /><br />I know, I couldn't believe it either. But apparently we don't understand this amino acid the way we think we do. Until we do, supplementation is recommended in all homemade diets.<br /><br />Not agreeing/disagreeing with anything else, just pointing this out.The Dog Househttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11287112678836853233noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-85135582796145401422010-05-15T19:11:08.261-07:002010-05-15T19:11:08.261-07:00Thanks Leslie K.... I agree that Mars neeeds to ma...Thanks Leslie K.... I agree that Mars neeeds to make public their test results and also let us know what lab was used. However, this incident appears to be a case of guilty until proven innocent!! There's such a lynch mob mentality here, it bothers me tremendously.<br />By no means do I promote Nutro or indeed any sort of commercial pet food....I believe in feeding our pets wholesome foods, and canned and kibbled foods are sorely lacking. <br />It concerns me that this PFPSA website contains so much misinformation though. Particularly that recipe! Yowzer!<br />It would be nice if "anonymous" could read my post with a modicum of comprehension. With that immense talent for sarcasm, I'd guess that we have a Pet Disconnection defector in our ranks! Re-read, think about the information, and then maybe you can post a comment that makes sense. Don't forget to read the articles at the end, none of those sources endorse commercial dog food.Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-12786232471127032692010-05-15T18:11:11.272-07:002010-05-15T18:11:11.272-07:00I don't think Don Earl is trying to set himsel...I don't think Don Earl is trying to set himself up as an expert. He's trying to help people whose animals are sick [or dead] find out why. Since most pfc's won't even admit they have had any complaints let alone give open test results, I have to believe pfpsa over Mars/ Nutro. If Mars wants me to reconsider, they need to publish their test results also. I'm sorry but this reminds me of the attempts to slander any lab that found melamine &/or cyanuric acid in pet food in 2007. I don't use any Mars products, however I do have a dog with chronic health problems from a commercial food. Now I question everything,& my pets all eat mostly homecooked & raw. I do get most of their needed vitamins & minerals from food & vary their diets. I also research any supplements I add. As in anything the answer is to check & double check. Don't rely on any 1 source for info & if a brand of food has hundreds of complaints along with multiple recalls, don't use it !Leslieknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-22066587362738206922010-05-15T12:44:55.008-07:002010-05-15T12:44:55.008-07:00Very interested in getting to the bottom of this, ...Very interested in getting to the bottom of this, especially given the many hundreds of complaints now posted on Consumer Affairs' site.<br /><br />Time4dogs, what food have you had tested and what were the results?<br /><br />Would be great if you could share your lab reports, and then we'll have something to compare with PFPSA's results.<br /><br />Thanks.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com