tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post1202417708947851980..comments2023-09-11T06:03:29.893-07:00Comments on Time 4 Dogs: USDA Strikes Again!Liberty Bellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comBlogger14125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-738894599800132782013-09-16T17:54:25.748-07:002013-09-16T17:54:25.748-07:00Does anyone know of some german shepherd breeders ...Does anyone know of some <a href="http://www.landheimk9.com" rel="nofollow">german shepherd breeders in Indiana</a>? I am looking at getting a puppy, but I want to make sure it a purebred. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00010828910460761567noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-87784799645159609712013-09-14T15:27:06.478-07:002013-09-14T15:27:06.478-07:00Rare breeds are FREQUENTLY shipped "sight uns...Rare breeds are FREQUENTLY shipped "sight unseen". Traveling across country to pick up a new pup for your breeding program is signifigantly less possible when you have multiple dogs in a home, and finding a pup within less than a days drive is extremely difficult for rare breeds. It has nothing to do with being a mill. Infact, many of these rare breed breeders are breeding less than 1 litter a year, but will ship half or more of a litter out sight unseen and the 4 bitch rule is so easily broken its not funny.....Ruthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11924993310937754220noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-5791502144910194222013-09-13T18:15:46.272-07:002013-09-13T18:15:46.272-07:00One of the very best Dobermans I have even owned w...One of the very best Dobermans I have even owned was shipped to me sight unseen. All arrangements were done via email and telephone. <br /><br />Of course, I was able to check out the breeder via several friends I had in the breeder's area AND equally important, the breeder was able to check me out the very same way. Ten months and an AKC obedience title later we met face-to-face for the first time.<br /><br />We need to be able to find the breed and dog of our choice when and were we may and not via some damnfool gov'ment rule written by drones who know nothing about breeding animals and work very, very hard to maintain that fine state of total ignorance. Margot Woodshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03183491858427197526noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-26719782010576265712013-09-13T12:19:33.079-07:002013-09-13T12:19:33.079-07:00Maybe if you are shipping sight-unseen you should ...Maybe if you are shipping sight-unseen you should register? Seems like it would be more "mill" like if you are breeding so many that you've exhausted the local market and need to ship animals? I don't know, I've never been a breeder just always bought from a breeder. When I wanted a cat that use to be considered "rare" (hypoallergenic), I flew to another state and flew back with the kitten. I would have never had it shipped to me, but that is just me I guess.Tayahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14128324328488657671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-4627821672038993232013-09-13T09:00:41.434-07:002013-09-13T09:00:41.434-07:00According to some interpretations of the 91-page p...According to some interpretations of the 91-page published rule, the four-bitch limit doesn't apply unless you ship sight-unseen. However, my understanding (limited, granted) is that ANYONE who ships sight-unseen must register as a USDA breeder, so why is there any mention even made of this four-bitch limit? I listened to the conference call again and one of the USDA reps did say, if you don't ship sight-unseen, this rule does not apply to you, PERIOD. However, I am skeptical. We'll have to see how it plays out.<br />Shipping is a necessity for those with rare breeds and it is generally done "sight-unseen" by the buyer. However, all dogs shipped must have a veterinary health certificate and a rabies shot, so this claim of people shipping unhealthy dogs is just plain BULLSHIT. If they are lying about the need for the rule change then they would also lie about who would ultimately be affected. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-58476187015313405572013-09-12T20:24:12.717-07:002013-09-12T20:24:12.717-07:00Well now that I went back and listened to the conf...Well now that I went back and listened to the conference call again, I am less sure. One of the USDA guys did say, if you don't ship sight unseen, this new rule doesn't apply to you. I am going to do some further investigating and get back to you!! Thanks for commenting. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-79003599670277318472013-09-12T16:23:20.105-07:002013-09-12T16:23:20.105-07:00I have read the new rules (it's NOT a law) and...I have read the new rules (it's NOT a law) and I have listened to the conference. I have also carefully read the FAQs. If you have four or fewer breeding females you are exempt. You must also only sell those born and raised on your premises, how do you like them apples? Here is the pertinent section of the new rules: Restoring and amending the exemption in § 2.1(a)(3)(vii) so that any person including,<br />but not limited to, purebred dog or cat fanciers, who maintains a total of four or fewer<br />breeding female dogs, cats, and/or small exotic or wild mammals, and who sells, at retail,<br />only the offspring of these dogs, cats, and/or small exotic or wild mammals, which were<br />born and raised on his or her premises, for pets or exhibition, and is not otherwise<br />required to obtain a license, is also considered a retail pet store for regulatory purposes.Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-75130624723789663092013-09-12T16:10:02.288-07:002013-09-12T16:10:02.288-07:00you can believe what you want but if you read the ...you can believe what you want but if you read the law, or listen to the APHIS conference, that is NOT what they said . It is only if you ship. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07868521656398972226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-30726336773545831442013-09-12T16:09:21.026-07:002013-09-12T16:09:21.026-07:00In the recently-released FAQs there was an estimat...In the recently-released FAQs there was an estimate of how many more breeders will be required to license with the USDA once this rule kicks in. Their estimate: "....does not include breeders who will not be affected by the rule because they do not sell pets, because they don’t have more than four breeding females, or because they sell pets face-to-face.”<br /><br />More than four breeding females OR selling sight-unseen. If you meet those conditions you are expected to apply for a USDA license.<br /><br />Not “AND”. The word is “OR”<br /><br />In other words, if you breed working dogs you are specifically exempt. If you have four or fewer females you are exempt OR If you only sell “face-to-face” (no shipping sight unseen) you are exempt.<br /><br />Shelters and rescues are also exempt according the the FAQs.Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-24368778995865729772013-09-12T15:47:50.633-07:002013-09-12T15:47:50.633-07:00No you are mistaken. The four limit is completely ...No you are mistaken. The four limit is completely unrelated to whether or not you ship. You cannot have as many bitches as you like if you don't ship. Dunno where you got such an idea. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-88263959930684710192013-09-12T15:33:20.128-07:002013-09-12T15:33:20.128-07:00the 4 limit will only matter if you SHIP dogs to p...the 4 limit will only matter if you SHIP dogs to pet home buyers.Shipping is via air, or ground transportation. The new owners must come to you , and they can fly in & take a pup back as excess baggage.You can have as many breeding bitches as you like if you do not do any shipping. Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07868521656398972226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-10391068545227881142013-09-12T10:44:55.700-07:002013-09-12T10:44:55.700-07:00No, there is a four-bitch rule. You can't have...No, there is a four-bitch rule. You can't have as many as you like. And yes, "rescue" is exempt. Some of the worst animal abuse offenders! Of course this cannot be enforced and even if they did include shelters and rescues, do you honestly think they would actually go after those groups? Nope. Just breeders. Breeders are the bad guys. End of story. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-21197930176766248222013-09-12T03:32:33.659-07:002013-09-12T03:32:33.659-07:00Here's what it says in the opening lines: We a...Here's what it says in the opening lines: We are revising the definition of retail pet store and related regulations in order to <br />ensure that the definition of retail pet store in the regulations is consistent with the Animal <br />Welfare Act (AWA), thereby bringing more pet animals sold at retail under the protection of the <br />AWA. Specifically, we are narrowing the definition of retail pet store to mean a place of <br />business or residence at which the seller, buyer, and the animal available for sale are physically <br />present so that every buyer may personally observe the animal prior to purchasing and/or taking <br />custody of that animal after purchase, and where only certain animals are sold or offered for sale, <br />at retail, for use as pets. Retail pet stores are not required to be licensed and inspected under the <br />AWA. maggie bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03019858406455209508noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-54008179887627459412013-09-12T03:27:50.861-07:002013-09-12T03:27:50.861-07:00I thought if you didn't ship it didn't mat...I thought if you didn't ship it didn't matter how many dogs you had. Whip me with a noodle I hope that's right. Otherwise I have 60 days to get rid of an intact female that I've never bred and never will. Hard to find a perfect home in 60 days. <br /><br />Also if you read the last two paragraphs in the rule it says that rescue is exempt because they deliver dogs face to face but ones shipped across the country to be sold off the bus in other states may be affected.maggie bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03019858406455209508noreply@blogger.com