tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post1121215796754514688..comments2023-09-11T06:03:29.893-07:00Comments on Time 4 Dogs: You Can't Serve Two MastersLiberty Bellehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comBlogger29125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-34208348354161347932014-09-11T20:36:45.289-07:002014-09-11T20:36:45.289-07:00The problem is with google not letting you use you...The problem is with google not letting you use your profile to comment. It was a pain for me and I posted as anonymous but did sign my name at the bottom, which is more than most will do.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13171743521864926408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-8392575187566686662014-09-11T20:34:23.398-07:002014-09-11T20:34:23.398-07:00Liberty Belle, I don't know how much experienc...Liberty Belle, I don't know how much experience you have in legislation and negotiation, but from my years of experience the lawmakers will never listen to anyone who just screams "no we don't need a new law". The problem I alluded to is that of the efficient brainwashing of the public and lawmakers against breeders. Breeders who repeat year after year that they don't need to be regulated are absolutely ignored. These lawmakers only know what the ARs tell them unless WE speak to them. You can still stop bad laws by sitting at the table and destroying the AR emotions with facts.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13171743521864926408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-21870600914772267582014-09-11T13:49:43.807-07:002014-09-11T13:49:43.807-07:00I think NAIA has no particular problem with regula...I think NAIA has no particular problem with regulating the other guys out of existence. They have never been a friend to commercial breeders or anyone who breeds more dogs than they approve. As you point out, they have a history of negotiation and have often been willing to side with ARs at the state level when it comes to regulations on breeders. Their opposition to the APHIS rule was half-hearted and they have opposed Frank Losey's lawsuit from the start. With Prager in a prominent position at APHIS now, I think we can expect more of the same -- more regulations on all but the most elite dog breeders. As the saying goes, you only need to be regulated if you have more dogs than Patti. NAIA and APHIS will control hobby dog breeding in the United States.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-66882879388999001992014-09-11T13:11:28.011-07:002014-09-11T13:11:28.011-07:00Yes, there are lit torches....by those at the USDA...Yes, there are lit torches....by those at the USDA and within "the fancy" who want to regulate "the other guys" out of existence. <br />But, as long as their worthless "fancy" hide is covered with an exemption, that's all they care about. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-83556567951091879232014-09-11T12:50:20.480-07:002014-09-11T12:50:20.480-07:00Nope, not really, and yet the voices of indignatio...Nope, not really, and yet the voices of indignation continue. How dare I criticise Mr. Prager! Why can't we just shut up, sit down and go along with the government's plan for us all? <br />Well I'm not going to shut up and sit down, and ten years from now, guess who will be saying "told you so". Unfortunately, that will be me. :(Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-70017775593730571972014-09-11T12:44:36.184-07:002014-09-11T12:44:36.184-07:00I'm sure he is well-intended; however, I am fa...I'm sure he is well-intended; however, I am familiar with him and disagree with him on just about every issue facing dog breeders and the role of government. <br />The first thing he will be "doing" is attempting to sabotage the legal effort of thousands breeders and dozens of dog clubs to stay the new rules. But then, he's been DOING that all along. Thanks so much for DOING something. <br />NOT.Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-17839631550062029052014-09-11T12:32:50.873-07:002014-09-11T12:32:50.873-07:00Really? And what "problem" might that be...Really? And what "problem" might that be? The imaginary one that USDA is addressing with these new broad rules that prohibit shipping by relatively small breeders? Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-78468683727429725092014-09-11T12:30:07.218-07:002014-09-11T12:30:07.218-07:00It is not possible to negotiate with a party who h...It is not possible to negotiate with a party who has nothing to give up. The government holds all the cards in this one. They will do as they please, and right now that means pleasing HSUS. When you are at the table it's just quicker for them to have you for dinner. Subjugation? You betcha. This is the federal government we are talking about here.....Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-85595473906209238542014-09-11T12:15:46.491-07:002014-09-11T12:15:46.491-07:00You know, I really rather have a real enemy in Pra...You know, I really rather have a real enemy in Prager’s new role, rather than someone on the ideological borderline. The HSUS and its ilk would like to regulate the fancy out of existence; Prager is comfortable with a regulatory approach to “protecting” the fancy. I believe that a regulatory approach to “protecting” the fancy leads to its destruction. Gosh, there’s not a lot to talk about. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-86020375988882782722014-09-11T07:10:24.719-07:002014-09-11T07:10:24.719-07:00I think it is way too premature to call this a dan...I think it is way too premature to call this a dangerous situation. Who else did you have in mind to represent hobby breeders? This position requires experience in federal law, lawmaking and writing federal law. Mr. Prager has most, if not all this experience plus his background as a hobby breeder. What more do you want? FACT: dog breeders, through our own shortsightedness over the past decades, have not done enough to promote the purebred dog. We were too wrapped up in majors, litters, shows and gossip. FACT: the animal rights people have done a terrific job of brainwashing the general public into "knowing" that all breeders are bad. So now comes one of our own into a position of influence (note I did not say power), and some complain about it before he even gets a chance to start! <br /><br />The most important thing I've learned after years working for fair legislation in IL is that you have to learn the rules of engagement and then play accordingly to win. Just because its not fair or doesn't seem right never means you will prevail because you think you are right. With Mr. Prager in this position dog breeders at least have a chance to get our issues addressed, hopefully with a good dose of common sense. If you choose to assume Mr. Prager is now the enemy before he is even given a chance and before you send your issues to him, then YOU are part of the problem!<br /><br />I for one will be drafting a letter for my parent clubs approval to send our concerns to Mr. Prager with regard to a low registration, at risk breed. <br /><br />Michele Kasten<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-55994132204719909312014-09-11T06:51:02.370-07:002014-09-11T06:51:02.370-07:00Don't confuse negotiation with subjugation. Ne...Don't confuse negotiation with subjugation. Negotiation does not have to end with agreement between the parties but it opens the idea of listening to each sides information, which is more difficult or even impossible if you are not at the table. <br /><br />Michele KastenAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-57130442833850265722014-09-10T19:16:52.528-07:002014-09-10T19:16:52.528-07:00The role of government, particularly the federal g...The role of government, particularly the federal government, is strictly limited by the constitution. And while I fully support the purebred dog "fancy", I am smart enough to realize that the "fancy" is only a very small part of the global breeding community. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-67402666796058055432014-09-10T19:12:47.392-07:002014-09-10T19:12:47.392-07:00Yep, the motto for the next NAIA conference is &qu...Yep, the motto for the next NAIA conference is "If you're not at the table, you may be on it!" indicating their willingness to negotiate with terrorists. How very very foolish, as are their blind followers. Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-60549055307589280372014-09-10T17:28:02.425-07:002014-09-10T17:28:02.425-07:00Really? You believe that the breeding community wi...Really? You believe that the breeding community wishes to micromanage dog breeders and put many or most of them out of business? I don't think most breeders feel that way at all. We have a right to breed as we see fit, not within the confines of regulation. If I want to create a new breed, I should be able to do so. If I want to inbreed, I should be able to do so. If I want to breed my dog to a bat to produce a flying twirlhund, then that's my right. The government and those who support their intrusive rules can go to hell.Liberty Bellehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01177305529757660312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-90658243378141209232014-09-10T10:06:19.828-07:002014-09-10T10:06:19.828-07:00"Everything government touches turns to crap...."Everything government touches turns to crap." Ringo Starr<br /><br />Prager has now joined the "crap." I feel so much safer now....Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-52849953124901422332014-09-09T22:16:24.865-07:002014-09-09T22:16:24.865-07:00The most telling thing about these comments is tha...The most telling thing about these comments is that they are almost with exception posted as "anonymous.. why?? because NO ONE wants APHIS on their backs.. and no one wants to draw attention to their breeding program Prager says open up tell us all.. we won;'t "do you wrong" I hope we can trust him but I fear the Stockholm Syndrome will not be long incoming.. in fact it is pretty close to here and nowAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-13192846137099159182014-09-09T21:46:05.597-07:002014-09-09T21:46:05.597-07:00Do any of you actually KNOW Julian Prager? I do an...Do any of you actually KNOW Julian Prager? I do and this is a bunch of baloney. Julian is one of the fairest, smartest people I know. He worked long and hard in PA to stop the ARs from hijacking the laws there and make sure the laws that were going to be passed whether we wanted them or not were laws that could be liveable for dog breeders. We need to stop the lynch mob and give Julian a chance to do what he is good at - dealing with legal issues. You will probably not even know when Julian does something because he won't jump out in the limelight and brag about what he has done. But he will be DOING SOMETHING which is more than many people in this lynch mob have done. JMHOElizabeth Brinkleynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-42789170639612503292014-09-09T17:29:20.681-07:002014-09-09T17:29:20.681-07:00Thank you Anonymous for an objective, realistic ap...Thank you Anonymous for an objective, realistic approach. Sadly the torches have been lit. Since we KNEW someone was going to be representing us, I feel relieved that it is someone who has been battling with us. Could have been another Ed Sayres --oh WAIT PIJAC already hired him to "protect our interests"Randienoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-28002744890285432502014-09-09T17:13:36.441-07:002014-09-09T17:13:36.441-07:00With Julian Prager's latest "now, now, it...With Julian Prager's latest "now, now, it's going to be all right" missive, I am increasingly concerned that this whole thing will hasten the demise of purebred dogs. You'd think this country has had enough experience with Islamic and other terrorists that it could recognize that this is exactly what we are dealing with, just on a more conciliatory level than previously. APHIS will eventually drown purebred dog fanciers and NAIA is helping it along.<br /> I sure hope my great grandkids will have the opportunity to own the dog of their choice.<br /> Disgusted.<br /> Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-37922638693948958312014-09-09T17:01:17.078-07:002014-09-09T17:01:17.078-07:00Seems to be that APHIS is redundant and only serve...Seems to be that APHIS is redundant and only serves to populate itself with more Nannies. All these are a bunch of “Do Gooders” wanting to further intrude into our lives. I suppose I am paying their salaries too and Julian Prager is going to be yet another recipient at the trough of government largess. My opinion has recently become the same for the EPA; all good when first thought of but who have all outgrown their need and now wallow in the same trough. The future is looking like you will need to say “Mother May I Breed this canine, feline or equine.” And the bureaucrat will say, “what is a canine, feline or equine I only deal with dogs, cats and horses………..in puzzlement.” Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-10742412874597161982014-09-09T16:47:49.575-07:002014-09-09T16:47:49.575-07:00Did Mr. Prager write this comment or his partner?Did Mr. Prager write this comment or his partner?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-14728109905938561432014-09-09T16:35:32.507-07:002014-09-09T16:35:32.507-07:00This doesn’t surprise me AT ALL, I’ve had a few go...This doesn’t surprise me AT ALL, I’ve had a few go arounds with him about 3-4 years ago, and the handwriting was on the wall. Yes it was over the same stuff USDA/APHIS and what they were going to do. (Remember back when it was just a PROPOSAL?) He’s a ‘whistleblower’ on the dog breeders. So you’d better alert the entire dog world about it. Don’t bother with AKC they support him and of course we all know about Patty Strand. Fitting isn’t it? She’s breeder of the year and he now comes out of the closet that he’s on staff with USDA/APHIS. This should be the wakeup call for everybody.<br /><br />The only information that you need to give him is ‘kiss off’.<br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-40429783634234001072014-09-09T13:36:03.791-07:002014-09-09T13:36:03.791-07:00This blog writer has truly lost touch with reality...This blog writer has truly lost touch with reality IMHO. If APHIS needs a subject matter expert would you prefer the extremely bright, educated, totally committed to the support Julian or some HSUS flak? Do you just like to stir the pot? Apparently this writer thinks there is no way Government can do anything right and so attack, attack attack. I am delighted APHIS has been smart enough to get a lawyer who understands law, regulations, AND the sport of purebred dogs. You should be cheering but don't seem to have enough sense to do anything but complain. Sad. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-24728572785008938212014-09-09T13:13:13.223-07:002014-09-09T13:13:13.223-07:00Two masters but the agenda is not that different.Two masters but the agenda is not that different.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-9128506581675705657.post-9607494809792353552014-09-09T11:15:32.517-07:002014-09-09T11:15:32.517-07:00This is the man who was cheering and saying the la...This is the man who was cheering and saying the lawsuit to set aside the rule was "moot" after the Farm Bill was passed… now admitting that it is being enforced? The reasons he states as the basis for the rule conflict with what the USDA/APHIS claimed and both conflict with the facts coming out because of the lawsuit. HSUS has now admitted writing the rule change and has power positions within USDA/APHIS and the OIG.<br /><br />He admits they still don't know what they are doing yet are enforcing the rule…and wants our input? Geez… "lay your neck on this chopping block here". I continue to support the lawsuit to set aside the rule until they get their s@*t together!<br /><br />Why would anyone in their right mind be against stopping a law at least until it is done correctly? Why do we need more redundant laws? Now we know why the NAIA and AKC, advised by Prager, have been opposed to the lawsuit to stay the APHIS rule. <br /><br />Prager's announcement is full of mis-information and wording intended to feed the dislike of small breeders for large breeders. His stating that the rule was intended to stop large (bad) breeders can't be farther from the truth. <br /><br />HSUS has been getting data about breeders from USDA via the FOIA, so why is the AKC and NAIA (Prager) advising breeders to apply for licensing, to fill out forms with their personal information? <br /><br />When the rule change was announced, Prager advised me that "the intent was the law and not the written word"… this is WRONG.<br /><br />Just look at the legislation that has passed in the NAIA home state of Oregon… according to HSUS/ALDF, Oregon is one of the most AR friendly states. The NAIA track record speaks for itself… they don't fight legislation, they propose it and negotiate the wording. Now Prager has a "dream job" where he can pontificate, negotiate, discuss and debate… all the while, we small hobby breeders get regulated out of existence… and furthering the AR vegan agenda. <br /><br /><br />Gibscothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10836501396263305080noreply@blogger.com